The website so far

Ann age 6 months with Joan GIBBON (nee McDade)

Well, Cousin Colin has spent a little time checking and we can have a URL for around ten pounds a year. I suppose the thing we have to decide is how we are going to pay for it and who will do the deed and make the purchase. The URL will be something like thegibbongazette.co.uk simply because we all know this name. The information should not be restricted to the GIBBON family though and we should all think about adding our own twigs and branches.
So what would you - YOU - like to see on our website?
Photographs, of course. The family tree, definitely. Stories about each branch of the family, oh undoubtedly. A place for messages, a place where the Gibbon Gazette and the Nathan News can be downloaded.
What else?
Once again I am asking for feedback. Please say something if it's only be quiet.

Thinking about the family

This evening, while playing a game on this here intarwebby, I was thinking. I was wondering if we should have a family website where we can keep our heirloom photographs and stories of our branch of the family. I was imagining that it would be just for family members and would need a password to get at the information. I should imagine it would cost a few pounds but surely it wouldn't be too expensive.
Should we look into this? is there anyone out there would be willing to create the pages for us? could this be the next step in the sharing of our family history?
Answers in the comments please...

John Daniel Guilfoyle

Charlie and Fani 1939.
(original picture with cousin Pat)

John Daniel Guilfoyle Seymourwas born on December 16th 1878  at 125 London Road, Southwark.

His birth was registered on 25th January 1879 just two days before the six weeks grace allowed between the birth and the registration. He was registered by his Grandfather John Nathan and it would seem that he believed that Bessie and Charles were married at this time.  They didn’t get married until 1st March 1879 when they were in Liverpool.

I have found John Daniel on the 1881 Census for Scotland. With his parents and sister Harriet. I have not found any other mention of him until  the1891 census when he is living at  5 Halley St, Chorlton-on-Medlock with his sisters Harriet and Margaret and brother Charles and a housekeeper.

Ten years later Bessie has opened the Fancy  Goods Bazaar on Cardiff road, Newport, but she has only put herself and daughter Margaret on the census.

On 30th August 1905 John Daniel married Josefa Gutiere at the Register Office, Newport. They both give their address as 44 Cardiff Road (living above the shop) He gives his father’s name as Guilfoyle Seymour (deceased) Theatrical Actor and her father is Joseph Gutiere, farmer.

This must be the Spanish girl that Aunty Mu told us about.

Less than two years later, on 8th January 1907  Daniel Guilfoyle Seymour get married to Luise Braun in Chertsey. He says that his father is Charles Seymour  a shopkeeper.  Now I am pretty sure that this is “our” John Daniel . Now he is a mechanic and when we realise that motor cars were beginning to arrive - Rolls Royce were just getting started - it just feels right.

They had a child called Karl Daniel  1st June 1913 in 7 Back, 65 Hurst Street Birmingham—probably those now famous back-to-back houses. Daniel was an motor Omnibus Driver.  On 12 September 1913 Karl Daniel died age three months. The father’s name is given as John Daniel Guilfoyle  and they have moved to Petwyn Street Stoke-on-Trent.

Charles Guilfoyle married Fani Robini in St Pancras, London. He says his occupation is Assistant Cinema Operator and his father is Samuel Guilfoyle  a compositor. Once again I am 99% certain that this is “our” John Daniel. I think he then got a job  as a steward on the ships and when he saw what America had to offer he emigrated - sending for Fani later. He lied about his age when he married her saying he was 30  when he was actually 42. I cannot find another Charles Guilfoyle on any census. I can't find a John Daniel on any census either.

I think I have finally unravelled the Uncle Charlie in America mystery

Harriet Guilfoyle Seymour

We recently discovered that Charles John Guilfoyle and Bessie Nathan had five children not four. I found the birth of Harriet Sarah Guilfoyle Seymour in Dublin in 1881 and then realised that Harriet had been a witness at the wedding of Frederic Gibbon and Margaret Annie Guilfoyle.

Recently I was able to take part in the ‘beta’ testing of the website for the British Library Newspaper Library. This will be going live very soon and we will be able to search thousands of local newspapers at the click of a mouse.

When I was asked to help in the trials I immediately put in  Bessie’s name and got loads of ‘hits’ that were reviews of performances or advertisements for shows. I put the surname Guilfoyle Seymour in and two of the hits were reports of Harriet Guilfoyle Seymour being missing from home at the age of 14. I  transcribed the reports and they are below. Yet another mystery to unravel if possible.

Manchester Evening News Saturday 8th December 1894.

Harriet Guilfoyle Seymour, aged 14, whose parents reside in Halley St, Greenheys, left home on Thursday afternoon. The girl is of stout build, has short hair and large dark eyes. She was wearing a tam-o-shanter, black & white check coat, old grey working dress and low lace-up shoes. The matter was mentioned by the mother to Mr R.A. Armitage at the City Police Court this morning and the applicant referred to the press representatives.

Manchester Evening News Fri 14 Dec 1894.

Mysterious Disappearance of a Girl

A Girl age 14, named Harriet Guilfoyle Seymour is missing from her home in Craven Street, Chorlton-on-Medlock. She is 4’ 6” in height and has a round face, brown eyes and dark hair cut short. At the time of her disappearance she was wearing a grey dress, check Ulster and Tam-o-shanter hat. Her parents would be glad to receive notice of her whereabouts.

I find it quite odd that there should be different addresses although the Halley street address is where the children were living with a housekeeper for the 1891 census. This family just gets more and more exciting!

Gedcom files thbthbthbthbthbthbt

I have tried and tried to persuade my family tree programme to allow me to send the tree in PDF format and all it does is make the computer hang. To say that this is frustrating just doesn't come anywhere near how I feel. I tried to send a Gedcom file to Sandy and they couldn't open it. I just don't know what else to do at the moment. I am going to ask some of the really clever people on www.British-genealogy.com
because they have never failed me yet. It might take a while but I will be sending out copies of the tree as soon as I can.

I thought I would put this picture one here because it is the one that prompted Cousin Yvonne to say "Look at all those Gibbon noses, like a row of coathooks"
It is quite funny actually because there are only two Gibbon noses in the picture!

From the left we have Phyllis Gibbon, wife of Frederick Charles Gibbon mother of Cousin Andy; Mary Carlson, formerly Gibbon, wife of Hilmer, mother of Yvonne, Jackie, Colin and Paul; Renee James wife of Ken James (with the handlebar moustache) close army friend of Bernard Gibbon; Joan gibbon wife of Bernard, mother of Ann; Muriel Baggott formerly Gibbon widow of Bertram Baggott mother of Patricia, Leonard and Bernard;. Jill Murray daughter of George Murray (a friend of BernardGibbon); Pat Murray wife of George mother of Jill and Michael.
This was taken at the Rising Sun on Shafestbury Street at a Royal Engineers association "do"probably around 1958 - 1960. I think this typifies the closeness of the family at that time. These were the people that came to our house on a Sunday because Muriel had invited everyone to tea. She used our house because it was bigger, she said.
I'll put more notes about my research on here this week, all being well.

Details of the family tree

Amy, Sandy and Doreen

Cousin Sandy, in Arizona asked if I could put details of who belongs to whom onto the blog. I have thought about this and I have read a lot of other blogs and everyone seems concerned about "them" and the fact that "they" could read the details and steal our identities. To avoid this here is what I suggest we do.
If you aren't sure of the relationships then download a free family tree programme - the LDS website has one that is perfectly good for this - and then ask me to send you a copy of the family tree as a .gedcom file. You can then open the file using the family tree software and if you want to print it out and look at it you can. I will add photographs to this blog and then you can look at the tree and see who's who AND who they belong to.
I did type out two generations for Sandy and it took over an hour so I think this is a much better way for us all to get the information.
I will be continuing to send out the newsletter occasionally, I would like to do more of the themed issues like the one that Russell sent us about the pie town and the one Martyn wrote about his DofE expeditions. If anyone has an idea then please do send it to me...... I know, I know I am wasting my breath.

A bit more of the family tree

Elizabeth "Bessie" Nathan

Samuel and Hannah lived in Southwark (pronounced Suth -ick, the "th" being hard as in then) which is south of the Thames (pronounced Temms) in London. I am putting the pronounciation in for all our cousins who were not born and raised in the UK. We like to keep people on their toes when they are trying to read our language :) Now where was I?
Their address when Samuel died was 1 Borough Road, Southwark. As far as I can see they had showrooms on London Road and as the children grew up some of the boys opened their own showrooms and began to build their own business. On the 1841 census John is still living at 1 Borough Road along with Sarah, Jane, Samuel, Nancy, Rachel, Anna, Fanny and Henry.
I have found an Aaron of the right age in Birmingham as a shopman with another Nathan family. Nathan Nathan age 25 Mary Nathan 25 Samuel 2, Aaron 30 (remember that ages of adults were rounded down to the nearest five years on the 1841 census so the adults could be up to four years older).
Wherever they all were in 1841 they were all going to get a traumatic shock the following year when their father, Samuel, was "Feloniously Killed and Slayed". He was attacked in an auction room on Pall Mall by three men, one of whom alleged that Samuel had "...used some expression that no man could bear". Samuel died two weeks later and the coroner gave the cause of death as "effect of blow to his head". You can see a full transcript of the trial here
Hannah continued to run the business and she is on the 1851 census on London road doing just that.
The three men who were indicted were found guilty of feloniously killing and slaying Samuel Nathan and sentenced to six months hard labour - because of provocation.
I wonder if that was the full reason or whether the fact that Samuel was a Jew had anything to do with it. I probably shouldn't even think this, but I just can't help feeling that a society that would sentence a child to transportation for stealing a loaf of bread or hang a person for stealing a handkerchief, would not give six months for killing someone unless the victim was in someway not worthy of full justice. I am keeing in mind that Charles Dickens had written Oliver Twist only four years previously and he had captured the socialmores of the time perfectly so...

further discoveries

"Uncle Charlie" in Nesconset on his 'farm'

Thanks to the help of a really super sleuth researcher on www.British-genealogy.com we now have the four oldest of Charles and Bessie's children on the 1891 census. This has also told us that Daniel's name was John Daniel and that he was born in London, not British Columbia as he said on his immigration into New York. His sister Harriet Sarah was born in Dublin and that birthplace is correct on the census. Margaret Annie is listed as M G Seymour but her birthplace of Darlington is correct. This means that C G is Charles and we can only hope that his birthplace of Southport is correct too. I have sent for the certificates. The picture is the man that was known as Uncle Charlie. We are now pretty certain that he was really John Daniel and that he married Fani while still married to at least one other wife.
I love this family.
I can see a huge likeness between this man and my dad and the likeness between him and other members of the family is scarey.

Lets start at the very Beginning

Nathan NATHAN had a son called Samuel, who was born about 1783 according to his age on the death certificate.
On 6 January 1808 he married Hannah Mendes, daughter of David Mendes, at the Great Synagogue, Duke's Place, London. They had a lot of children
Simon b 1808
David b 1809
Aaron b 1812
Jane b 1818
John b 1819
Sarah b 1821
Abraham b 1823
Samuel b 1824
Nancy b 1826
Rachel b 1827
Hannah b 1831
Fanny b 1833
Henry b 1835
Now I have my doubts about the last three because according to other records Hannah Mendes was born in 1786 so she would have been 45 when she had Hannah. OK so that is believeable but I really can't see her having Fanny at age 47 or Henry at age 49. I could be wrong and they are listed on the 1851 census as her children but if I am sceptical and need more proof you will bear with me won't you.
Samuel Nathan was a dealer in Southwark and it was in an auction sale room on Pall Mall that he was attacked by three men who were indicted for "Feloniously killing and slaying" him in December 1842. He died at home at 1 Borough Road, Southwark two weeks after the attack. The three men were found guilty and sentenced to six months hard labour, because the court believed there was provocation.
Samuel left everything he had to his wife Hannah. He did not mention any of his children in the will so the oldest must already have been established in their careers.
More of that next time.

The first online Gazette

I thought it was time to drag us into the twenty-first century so I have created a Gibbon Gazette blog. This will mean that everyone in the family will be able to get to see things quickly - and comment on the articles too. Perhaps this way you might even contact me with stories LOL.

 I have added a picture that Cousin Andrew found in his stash of photographs. Fred is on the far left of the picture with the paper bag in his hand.
Muriel is number six from the left, tucked in behind another girl. Steve is singing with a sheet of paper in his hand. Also in the picture is Reg North who was a friend of Fred.

Looking at the picture I would say that this had to be taken on Good Friday because they are obviously out for the day and I would imagine that the only days that such a group could be out walking would be on a Sunday or a holiday. It looks like Bettws lane and I think they are on their way up to Twm Barlwm to celebrate Good Friday. Most of Newport would walk up there in the "old" days.

I will be adding information about the family tree to this blog and I will get all the details of the latest finds about our elusive actors - and also I can tell you if I discover any more about the elusive Fred Clode because we still haven't found out when he died.
tell me if you think this is a good idea.